"The Virtual YOU in the Virtual U" Eric Miraglia Visits Summertime Conversation Transcript (342 Total Comments)
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 11:51AM)
Hey everybody!
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 11:58AM)
Hi Amy, Hi Peter.
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 11:59AM)
Hi Eric!
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 11:59AM)
...and everybody.
Kathryn Nanneman (Jul 24 2000 11:59AM)
Greetings from the Illinois group
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 12:00PM)
Eric, Pullman folks are meeting from home today. So I have to wait until they get into the MOO,
then get em transferred over here.
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:00PM)
No rush...
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:01PM)
"hey Eric!
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:02PM)
How're things, Peter?
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:02PM)
good. can I talk to you (virtually) after the class?
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 12:03PM)
Hi, Eric! Welcome home!
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:04PM)
Hello, Nancy! Nice to be with you again, virtually speaking.
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:04PM)
It's weird to be in here with our "actual names" as opposed to the moo...
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 12:05PM)
I agree Peter! And no "emoting"
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:05PM)
:waves to "nestor"
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 12:05PM)
Just what I need, more stress!
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 12:06PM)
laughs at peter's ingenuity
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:06PM)
mu nestor, just checking
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:06PM)
laughs
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:07PM)
Hey Rob! Welcome.
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:08PM)
hey Ophelia!
Rob Zabel (Jul 24 2000 12:08PM)
Hey everybody.
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:08PM)
hi peter you handsome hunk
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:09PM)
blushes
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 12:09PM)
The Illinois group is kinda chatty since we can't chat; therefore we are having outbursts!
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:09PM)
speak for yourself Ms. wiegers. It is articulation
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:12PM)
phew! she's back
Kathryn Nanneman (Jul 24 2000 12:12PM)
Hey, I still here!
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 12:13PM)
Now we have to stop talking about her, eh Peter?
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 12:13PM)
AmyB laughs.
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 12:13PM)
Yay, Andrew!
Andrew Baga (Jul 24 2000 12:14PM)
except for the sexy part and the hunk part
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:14PM)
she can still see the transcript. Another weakness of chatrooms vs. moos. No talking behind
backs...
Andrew Baga (Jul 24 2000 12:15PM)
well crap there goes my entertainment for the class period
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:15PM)
Amy, let me know when you'd like to get started.
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 12:16PM)
I see that our two remaining students are making their way from the MOO--shouldn't be long
now, Eric.
Kathryn Nanneman (Jul 24 2000 12:16PM)
Where is Eric physically? We know he's with us virtually, but orginating from where?
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 12:17PM)
Hi, Abdel!
Abelwahab Fassi-Fihri (Jul 24 2000 12:17PM)
hello everybody I am in
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:18PM)
I'm at home, actually -- Redwood City, California, in Silicon Valley country.
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 12:19PM)
I think we can go ahead and start -- I believe one more person is on his way.
Abelwahab Fassi-Fihri (Jul 24 2000 12:19PM)
hello everybody
Kathryn Nanneman (Jul 24 2000 12:19PM)
I'm just wanting to be impressed with the technology.
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 12:19PM)
Let me introduce Eric to you --
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 12:19PM)
Eric Miraglia and I used to work together here at WSU.
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 12:19PM)
His creativity and energy provided the momentum for WSU's development of a series of online
learning spaces, culminating in the program we're using right now: the Speakeasy Studio & Cafe.
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 12:20PM)
He was also the lead programmer and the voice of the Speakeasy's concierge -- the fun sarcastic
voice that follows you everywhere in this program.
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 12:20PM)
In other words, he pretty much designed and built the thing.
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 12:20PM)
Now Eric is working for GetThere.com as a web design manager.
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 12:20PM)
And he's just a fun guy to talk to...Eric -- take it away!
Abelwahab Fassi-Fihri (Jul 24 2000 12:20PM)
hello everybody
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:21PM)
Excellent, thanks for the nice intro. I'll try to live up to being "fun". Hmmm. Okay, let's get started.
I'll be facilitating this conversation with a series of key questions that I'd like everyone to consider
together. What I have to contribute here is, at heart, embarrassingly simple -- but I can tell from
what I've read of your writing in the Speakeasy that you'll all have plenty of interesting things to
say along the way. When I'm posing a key question, you should see the comment appear in blue
in your browser. Other times, when I'm just making a comment, my text will look the same as
everything else. Everyone ready to start?
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:21PM)
let's get it on!
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 12:22PM)
ready!
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 12:22PM)
cruise on
Kathryn Nanneman (Jul 24 2000 12:22PM)
Go for it
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:22PM)
Well, if Peter's ready, I'll take it that he speaks for everyone.
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 12:22PM)
Ready- head forward.
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:22PM)
peter, that was rather forward
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:22PM)
Key Question #1:
Are you convinced /persuaded by the "Leadites'" argument that the advent of digital computing
has been and continues to be pretty disastrous to our common good? I know that Codrescu's
piece resonated for some, fanciful though it is. Are you persuaded by Postman's "Now...This"
piece -- and, moreover, convinced that this applies not just to the news but to other aspects of
our societal interactions as well, that we "think" differently in the Age of Information and
Amusement than we did in the Age of Books and Newspapers? (Some of you have read David
Noble, I believe? And surely other naysayers as well. Feel free to draw in those threads here.)
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:23PM)
some people are harmed by the vice of convenience and others see it for the simple too that it is
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:23PM)
oops, tool
Don Bechtoldt (Jul 24 2000 12:23PM)
Postman's is on the mark. We're continually bombarded with "fast news"
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 12:24PM)
sure it is convientent, but so is fast food, which causes heart troubles. This convience is hurting
our brain power
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:24PM)
I wonder if the problem is really with the news, or with the viewers that will only accept it in such
short bits...?
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:24PM)
no time to process the information
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 12:24PM)
Both articles made me question my direction in society; am I well-informed or do I pay too much
attention to Katie Couric?
Janet Reese (Jul 24 2000 12:24PM)
Split personality over the whole issue; good and bad points
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:25PM)
I just worry about the future generations not knowing how to handle books and such. When I
have my students do research, they all head straight for the computers. They seems appalled that
I want them to use real books.
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 12:25PM)
Good sumation Janet!
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:25PM)
you can't really blame the messenger. if someone lets their mind turn to mush, it's his/her own fault
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 12:25PM)
Can we ask students to think indepth when they are never asked to otherwise?
Kathryn Nanneman (Jul 24 2000 12:26PM)
The question is what compromises do we make...convenience over contact with the "realness" of
the world?
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 12:26PM)
Agree with Kelly; we were having that discussion the other day about the need for balance. Kids
need computers and books.
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:26PM)
of course we can ask that of students, it's their job to adapt
Rob Zabel (Jul 24 2000 12:26PM)
Good point Stephen!
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:26PM)
Kelly, I like that point a lot. I noticed in your response to Turkle that you had some similar
concerns ("Like I said before...Turkle's idea of "identity and multiplicity" just doesn't set well with
me. Sure, it's fun to be someone else for a while, but when is it too much? I would hate to see
students become so consumed by the virtual world that they forget who they really are.) Are any
of the rest of us concerned that the human brain and human society are just functioning differently
(read: less well) in the now...this age?
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:27PM)
I'm not so sure that "not being in-depth" is a problem left only to the new media (tv and
computers.
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 12:27PM)
by no means is it only related to the media
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:28PM)
To bring up a point close to kelly's heart, you don't have to worry so much about the demise of
books if you just consider the situation with Harry Potter!
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:28PM)
has anyone listened to harry potter on tape?
Don Bechtoldt (Jul 24 2000 12:29PM)
yea Peter, just consider the time constraints we've already placed on this chatroom
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:29PM)
Eric, don't get me wrong...I love my computer. But, we all need to strike a healthy balance. We
need to teach our students when to use the computer to complete a task, and when it is best not
to use it.
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:29PM)
Long live Harry Potter! :)
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:29PM)
What did you all think of Wendell Berry's piece? Did you agree with him?
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 12:30PM)
time controls most of our decisions
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:30PM)
I saw an interview from some Harvard dude the other night about how Harry Potter wasn't
reading at all, just a string of Cliche's...sounds like the arguments made against the news in
Postman.
Yi-Kun Chan (Jul 24 2000 12:30PM)
the screen is jumping. I have to scroll the bar every second.
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:30PM)
let's not be chicken little. Books are not in danger, just look at the size and volume of Barnes and
Noble
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:31PM)
Peter, shut your mouth! (haha) A 700+ book seems like reading to me!
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:31PM)
As far as the classroom is concerned, it's really up to us as teachers to strike that happy medium
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:31PM)
yes, Charlie Rose show, I believe, Peter.
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:32PM)
While it is beneficial, it seems to make things too easy for us.
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:32PM)
I guess I was talking more about using books to conduct research.
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:32PM)
Wow, Kelly! You go girl
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:32PM)
I just read it, and loved it. But the arguments were really similar. Nothing "in-depth"
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 12:32PM)
but michael, the sky is falling
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 12:32PM)
What's wrong with "too easy?"
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:32PM)
Karen: Do you conclude that, if things are made too easy for us, that our ability to do things that
aren't easy (with our minds) will atrophy over time?
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 12:32PM)
Wendell Berry reminded me of an interview I saw not long ago with author Joan Collins (I think
that is right). collins and Berry were similar in their belief about computers. I think you must
consider the part of them as artists. Many people (artists, athletes, muscians) have rituals that
don't want to compromise.
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:32PM)
Karen, what's wrong with too easy?
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:33PM)
if kids develop the love of reading with easy stuff, they will graduate to complex at some point
Don Bechtoldt (Jul 24 2000 12:33PM)
agree with Kelly and Mike both; knowing when to use a strategy is the key
Amber Thurnau (Jul 24 2000 12:33PM)
And just because computers make things easy, doensn't mean we have to become mindless
zombies entering informations. We can learn from our spell checkers! ha
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:33PM)
Just a side note, since we are talking about books and computers...Stephen King just published
another story exclusively online.
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:33PM)
If things are so easy for us then our brains just go to mush. We forget the really important things,
and are just willing to go along with anything.
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:34PM)
Sorry for some reason this is really really really really slow.
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:34PM)
I think this might become a literary trend.
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:34PM)
to Kelly, yeah, and he's charging $1 on the honor system
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:34PM)
We are talking about 2 things here if I read Amber correctly. Ease of acquistion yet analysis and
critical thinking must continue to occur
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:34PM)
Karen: That sounds serious :-). But, seriously, it sounds also like you concur with the Lead Pencil
folks and Postman.
Amber Thurnau (Jul 24 2000 12:34PM)
Only if we choose to Karen. We can sit back and let the computer do all the work and look at
the flasy internet pages, or we can learn from the computer and find scholary info on the internet
too!
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:34PM)
I guess after King, made his gazillions he doesn't want any other authors to make good money
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:35PM)
Key Question #2:
Does a part of you agree with Wendell Berry's respondents, one of whom writes that
s/he "enjoyed reading Berry's declaration of intent never to buy a personal computer in
the same way that [s/he] enjoy[s] reading a bout the belief systems fo unfamiliar tribal
cultures"? Janet Reese might; she writes, "Bill Henderson, help! I don't wanna like
them, but my name is Janet and I like computers and the internet" (from her Speakeasy
submission in this table). Are you willing to go back in time 25 years, do your writing by
hand rather than on a typewriter, balance your checkbook on paper...? Can you honestly
say that you don't embrace the technology in your everyday life?
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:35PM)
Mike, well, he has to do something new to compete with good ol' Harry Potter!
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:35PM)
King's last book, I think, was done in serial format. Consequently he had several spots
on the NYTimes best seller list
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:36PM)
I have no problem giving up my debit card
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:36PM)
I like convenience but I won't die without it
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 12:37PM)
I do embrace technology, but with the fast paced changes I am more cautious than
maybe most. I need balance and would like to maintain some of the old book, paper,
pencil teaching. Is that bad?
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 12:37PM)
clutches debit card fearfully
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:37PM)
Mike: But are you willing to write 20 page papers out by hand, then type them
manually?
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 12:37PM)
After we get used to a convience, isn't it hard to go back?
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:37PM)
im here!!
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:37PM)
I don't think there's 'a one of the conveniences I'd give up, if I had the choice.
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 12:37PM)
Is there some of the old "puritan work ethic" in all this?
Amber Thurnau (Jul 24 2000 12:38PM)
Yes, while I find Berry's points very valid, I cannot embrace them myself. Kinda like I
am against cruelty to animals, but cannot join the radical PETA. The lead pencil folk are
a bit too radical for me. Ha
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:38PM)
Eric, when I lived in taiwan just few years ago i did type many papers on a typewriter
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:38PM)
I admit to embracing the technology. I am a netjunkie. :-O (personally, but not in my
classroom)
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:38PM)
Nancy what do you mean by "this?"
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:38PM)
Stephen: Going backwards is probably always hard. But what if a convenience is turning
our brains to mush?
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 12:38PM)
Interesting that when we use the word 'technology' we're generally talking about new
technology -- once we're used to something (like pencils or quill pens) it's not technology
any more.
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:38PM)
how else can we look a it?
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:39PM)
Amy: How true.
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 12:39PM)
alex, Berry et al's idea that if it is easy and convenient, it must be "immoral."
Janet Reese (Jul 24 2000 12:39PM)
"However, there is a trend afoot with the simplicity is better kick. Books and magazines
dealing with this issue are making big bucks because there's many people out there who
want to go back to simpler times.
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 12:39PM)
Are we really going to mush, or working smarter?
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:39PM)
What convenience so far has turned our brains to "mush?" If all of us "newswatchers"
were really forgetting how to think, who would read postman?
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:39PM)
eric, it is only turning the weaker brains to mush, to paraphrase darwin
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:39PM)
Mike: And did you relish the experience of writing by hand in Taiwan? Or were you
anxious to get back to doing things on the computer?
Amber Thurnau (Jul 24 2000 12:39PM)
Good point Stephen.
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:40PM)
like i said, i like the convenience, but it won't kill me to give it up
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:40PM)
It's become easier to let someone or something think for us.
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:40PM)
Gotcha, Nancy, well perhaps that may be the case for some folks. However, it seems
the immorality becomes moot as everyone who can afford it, well almost everyone
makes use of technology knowingly or unknowingly
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 12:40PM)
thank you Amber
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:40PM)
Stephen, smarter? Some people are, I think, but so many young people rely on the
Internet too much. They can't think for themselves.
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:41PM)
calculators are a great think i believe!! to prove karens comment!
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:41PM)
What's an example, Kelly?
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:41PM)
i don't let anything think for me, but I might let it do the leg work
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:41PM)
mike m now mounts his horse to ride into the sunset instead of using his air-conditioned
car.
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:41PM)
I'm not embarrassed to say, I love computers and I love the internet -- I like my life
better with those things in it. Does anyone not feel that way?
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 12:41PM)
Good point Kelly, but that computer doesn't work itself around the net.
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:42PM)
Is their use of the internet the reason they are not thinking for themselves?
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:42PM)
i haven;'t had my a/c on all summer
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:42PM)
Academic research!!
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:42PM)
It's so much easier to hop on the web and let it pick out an argument for me than to look
up all the information and make an educated decision on my own. Someone else has
already done all the work for me...why should I bother? OR a calculator...imagine
if..gasp...you had to do a test without it!
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:42PM)
i never use the a/c in the car
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:42PM)
Mike, it sounds like you would totally disagree with Berry, Postman, Codrescu, and
Henderson. No?
Jane Helms (Jul 24 2000 12:42PM)
Good point, Kelly. We need to be able to use computers but not give up our ability to
think for ourselves. Look at our defense system. If it goes down do we still have
THINKERS there who can get us out of the trouble?
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:43PM)
Karen, are you saying you do not use your mind, that you are plagiarizing?
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:43PM)
Exactly, Karen.
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:43PM)
when I write research papers I still head to books before the net or even online articles
Yi-Kun Chan (Jul 24 2000 12:43PM)
computer and internet are already part of my life, too.
Janet Reese (Jul 24 2000 12:43PM)
I appreciate what computers and the internet can do for us, but I would not want one
controlling my life nor would I want to be on one all the time -- it's just another tool.
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:43PM)
i always use the net, to find books!
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:43PM)
Eric, actually I do agree with them, i just like to argue
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:44PM)
Mike: Understood.
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 12:44PM)
Janet hit it on the head when she stated it was just a tool, not a thinking machine.
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:44PM)
I guess if you really got into it...there are times when I don't know what to write about,
and I see someone else's opinion and I jump on their bandwagon. Does that mean I
plagiarize? I don't know...kind of brings up a whole other issue. How can a teacher
prove that student isn't just agreeing?
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:44PM)
I think the abundance of research I have been able to find on the Academic Search
engines, plus the ability to filter them with Keywords has helped me find the most
appropriate research. But I don't see where it's made my arguments for me.
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:44PM)
Is there anyone in this class who is as radical as the authors you read for today, as much
of a Luddite?
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:44PM)
Stephen, exactly, it's what we've been saying since day 1. It's JUST a tool
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:45PM)
mike, an instructive too you mean?
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:45PM)
Reading these comments, I keep thinking we are distinguishing between computers for
researching and writing and computers (technology) in other phases of life. Jane does
not want to be controled but in a sense we all are controlled by technology
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:45PM)
karen, did you just admit you have no academic integrity? :)
Kathryn Nanneman (Jul 24 2000 12:45PM)
I wonder how many times the phrase "It's just a tool" has been used during the last few
weeks.
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:45PM)
Peter, it's difficult for my seventh grade students to do that, though.
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 12:46PM)
Stop picking on Karen everyone. I think she is really onto a good insight there.
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:46PM)
mike...nope..I'm just saying that it's easier for some students to jump online or to watch
t.v. and have somone else do the work for them
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:46PM)
Thank you Nancy!!!
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:46PM)
Just as it would have been difficult for me in seventh grade. But luckily computers
haven't taken over my mind in that time...
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:46PM)
I agree with Karen!
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:46PM)
karen: I agree
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:46PM)
Key Question #3:
In my experience, most of us are both excited by and scared about how quickly things
are changing with the advent of personal computing and global networked computing.
And it sounds like that's true of us here today as well. Is there a middle ground? Amber
Thurnau writes, "As Janet, Kathryn, and Don have said, I agree much with the theology
of the Lead Pencil Club. I yearn to be a rebel against the information age just as
Thoreau would do. I see people replacing thought and personal relationships with
computers and teens who can’t make change at a fast food restaurant. Yes, all of this
scares me. I also, however, see computers as useful to our society." Probably, most of
us agree with Amber (correct me if I'm wrong). How, then, do you go about building a
"middle ground" for yourself in the digital age, a ground on which the "real" you and
the "virtual you(s)" can all comfortably stand? In particular, what does that look like for
you as a college student and/or as a teacher?
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:47PM)
We are not picking on you Karen. We are pondering and questioning right along with
you.
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:47PM)
I evaluate lesson by lesson whether tech. would enhance or detract from the idea
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:48PM)
yeah karen, chiiiilll!
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 12:48PM)
Ditto with Mike
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:48PM)
I didn't even say anything!!!
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:48PM)
you just did!
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 12:48PM)
I consider computers as advanced tools in education. Don't we still need to focus on the
less advanced and under appreciated topics?
Amber Thurnau (Jul 24 2000 12:48PM)
WEll, to continue with what we were saying about students wanting to steal from the
internet, I think the middle ground would be to allow them to find internet sources, but
have them respond to the sources...why do they agree or disagree...make them think
about the things they find with technology.
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:48PM)
SHush dina!! : )
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:49PM)
As I've said, sometimes I let kids use the net and sometimes I dont. Sometimes they
can type a paper at home and somettimes they write it in class
Don Bechtoldt (Jul 24 2000 12:49PM)
right on Amber, make the writing an extension
Janet Reese (Jul 24 2000 12:49PM)
As we all march to the beat of a different drummer, so much we find a tune for all of our
students -- trust, respect, and dignity -- should be driving concerns in developing lesson
plans.
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:49PM)
Amber, you say it all scares you. How can we take this change in our society and make
it productive, that is work with it instead of lamenting its occurence?
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:49PM)
And, like Mike said...only use computers if they enhance the lesson. Do just use
computers to be using them. Make the purpose clear for your students.
Amber Thurnau (Jul 24 2000 12:50PM)
Allow students to use the spell checker, but ask them to keep a list of their misspellings
and corrections?
Jane Helms (Jul 24 2000 12:50PM)
I think that teaching writing with technology as an assistant makes it more interesting
because we can access additional information and revise writing more efficiently.
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:50PM)
i know that i will use computers in my classroom, but not daily!
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 12:50PM)
Jane makes a great point!
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:50PM)
Don't just use, that is.
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:50PM)
sometimes I use a powerpoint, sometimes I use the board, sometimes the kids make
web pages, sometimes they turn in a product on posterboard
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:50PM)
Mike (and anyone): Do you spend time thinking about things like whether a given
conversation would be better "online," where maybe the quieter/shyer students might
participate more, or where the students could play with different identities? Or is that
even an option at your school?
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:51PM)
sometimes they work on line, sometimes we just talk
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:51PM)
sometimes I show the movie, sometimes they read the book
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:51PM)
mike,what works better? or more effeciently?
Jane Helms (Jul 24 2000 12:51PM)
I feel very confident in saying that after taking this course I won't want to teach writing
unless is IS in a classroom where every student has a computer all the time!
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:51PM)
does technology make your discussions any better than talking?
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 12:52PM)
Eric: after taking this class I am definitley considering how "online" may enhance the
teaching of reluctant participants of class discussion. but it will not be the mode of
presentation 100% of the time; at least not yet.
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:52PM)
Mike (and anyone): How do you make the decision to use one technology as opposed to
another? Do you think about Turkle and Noble and Postman and everything you've
read in this class? or is it more of an intuitive decision?
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:52PM)
works better? why, it depends on the goal and objective of the lesson
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:52PM)
I like Amber's point about spellcheck. If the computer doesn't flag a word or no
replacement is given, my students just leave it. They don't think to look in
the...gasp...dictionary.
Amber Thurnau (Jul 24 2000 12:53PM)
to Mellissa...not yet...I hope it will never be the only mode of presentation.
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 12:53PM)
to Dina: Sometimes/ depends on the pace and immediate reaction (especially nonverbal
cues)
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:53PM)
I would think with different classroom dynamics all the time, it would have to be
intuitive. You couldn't simply base your lessons on the ideas of those authors.
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:53PM)
Melissa: I doubt the reading you've done in this class would convince you to use it all
the time, no? But I'd be interested to know, from you and from everyone else, how the
readings you've done here inform the choices you make about when to (not) use
computers in your teaching. Are there examples you guys can think of?
Jane Helms (Jul 24 2000 12:54PM)
Sometimes the speellcheck creates mistakes.
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:54PM)
I agree with Peter.
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:54PM)
I wonder about this "only mode of presentation" as I think about the growing number of
online and distance learning courses.
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:54PM)
melissa: thanks! so what do you do when some or if any do not know how! (use
technology?)
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:54PM)
Teachers never meet their students f2f.
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:54PM)
This may sound extremely cheezy, but I just like the asthetics of writing with pencil and
paper. I don't want my students to forget about that.
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 12:54PM)
Jane, well, er, I'd say the person using the spell-check makes the wrong choice
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:55PM)
Throwing different technolgies into the mix, is the same as when I had to decide whether
to journal, freewrite, do lit circles, give an objective test, make them do a speech or any
other of the infinite lesson plans we had available even before there were computers
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:55PM)
Jane, I know! But the kids think the computer is all-knowing.
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 12:55PM)
Dina: I almost always asssume some will not know how to use and make time to teach
them individually or in small groups. Be at 1000 places at one time
Amber Thurnau (Jul 24 2000 12:55PM)
Not cheezy Kelly...I agree there is something about sitting at a desk with all of your
notes spread out and marking up a sheet of paper.
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:55PM)
Kelly, I think you can do both. Give your students in class assignments and that can
really make you see the things spell check has been fixing!
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:55PM)
I'm with kelly.
Jane Helms (Jul 24 2000 12:55PM)
When students do not know how to use the technology, they can become very
frustrated, especially basic English students.
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:56PM)
Amber, and I am being serious, what is asthetic about using pencil and paper or pen and
paper?
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:57PM)
I usually write out anything before I type it, and make my students do the same (when I
had students)
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 12:57PM)Key Question #4:
I'd like everyone to respond with a couple of examples to this question: What are the
one or two things you're going to do most differently as a teacher and/or as a student as
a result of having taken this class this summer, of having done the readings that you've
done?
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:57PM)
melissa: very difficult to do so much? at once
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 12:57PM)
You know, this is not as easy as the MOO. Technology is just not serving me very well
today.
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 12:58PM)
Dina: yes, but that is the reality of teaching.
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:58PM)
Alex, there is a beauty to creating writing that way. It's all in the handwriting and stuff.
:)
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:58PM)
definitely try this in my classroom!
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 12:58PM)
I think the biggest difference is I'll want to use the technologies I've used in this class
MORE. Especially the MOO.
Amber Thurnau (Jul 24 2000 12:58PM)
to Alex...Kelly said asthetic...I just like the feel of a pen and paper sometimes. Other
times I enjoy composing online...However to correct grammar and spelling for
students...It has to be paper and pen...Can't do it on copmuters.
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:58PM)
i mean using online talking. once in a while that is
Jane Helms (Jul 24 2000 12:58PM)
The spelling and grammar check causes students to make mistakes in the use of
restricted and non-restrictive clauses because the computer cannot tell the difference
between animate and inanimate objects/persons.
Don Bechtoldt (Jul 24 2000 12:58PM)
I've gotten lots of new resources to consider plus the advantage of using MOO (another
consideration)
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 12:59PM)
I am going to try and let students collaborate more and help each other get to a common
area.
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 12:59PM)
i think group discussion is very important because we know see the person and
therefore know how confused one is!!:)
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:59PM)
Kelly, perhaps, but my handwriting is horrid
Kathryn Nanneman (Jul 24 2000 12:59PM)
The use of on-line corresponding/conversation is very revealing when identifying
learning styles.
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 12:59PM)
I definitley see the benefit for student publishing and brainstorming using things like the
Speakeasy or Moo for an place to interact with peers and teacher. Non-threatening.
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 12:59PM)
I might try using online reader responses.
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 12:59PM)
Due to this class I think I'll be able to consider different ways to teach my students. And
I'll be conscious of the technologies my students may be using and watch those take
home assignments a little closer.
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 12:59PM)
Yes, Kathryn, quite revealing and should make us more aware of students struggles to
learn.
Amber Thurnau (Jul 24 2000 1:00PM)
to Alex, for example...I just got a gift..a book with copies of loveletters in thier original
writing and doodles...wouldn't have been the same just reading typed text.
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 1:00PM)
Oh, and the benefits of collaborating right there in the same room wiht someone or
across the nation; very exciting and frustrating at the same time.
Jane Helms (Jul 24 2000 1:00PM)
I will use the Speak Easy for chatting and posting.
Janet Reese (Jul 24 2000 1:00PM)
I agree with Kathryn. Online collaboration and other activities discussed in class will
help augment students' learning styles.
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:00PM)
I'm curious of Amy's and Nancy's answer to this question.
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 1:00PM)
i want to do moo in my classroom for sure. its beeg a great experience and a very good
way to discuss things and not boring!:)
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 1:02PM)
Peter, I think I am interested in continuing to use collaboration and try to find ways to
facilitate it. This has been my favorite part of class.
Janet Reese (Jul 24 2000 1:02PM)
Dina, initially Mooing was a good experience; however, I'm thinking twice about using it
in light of what's happened in the last few days.
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 1:02PM)
Share more Janet---why?
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 1:02PM)
In the last few days janet??
Abelwahab Fassi-Fihri (Jul 24 2000 1:03PM)
I believe that this technology should not be used before highschool or be use at the
earliest in middle school.
Alexandra Babione (Jul 24 2000 1:03PM)
Yes, Amber, we are losing that particular elemnet of communication and in appreciating
the revisions writers make when creating their books, essays, poems. Those using the
computer also may not save various drafts.
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 1:03PM)
oops sorry!!
Janet Reese (Jul 24 2000 1:03PM)
We've had someone raid our projects, and I tried to track the scandal down.
Unfortunately, I got trapped then started wondering about the person who created the
traps and did the thieving.
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 1:03PM)
Abel, I think there are benefits to using it in elementary school.
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:03PM)
Abdel: that sounds like the thesis of your final project!
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 1:03PM)
You just wanted attention dina!
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 1:03PM)
I'd agree with Nancy -- I was about to say I'm interested in exploring different ways of
using it ...
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 1:03PM)
I agree, early on we should use school as an exposure to technology, but it is most
effective at the collegiate level
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 1:04PM)Key Question #5 (Final Question):
So, the Virtual You in the Virtual U is...what? Someone who is aware of the Lead Pencil
Club dogma, aware of Postman's critique of our fast-food-culture of thought and news,
someone who is a critical consumer of the technologies s/he makes a part of her/his life?
That might be my answer...someone who understands the good and the bad and thinks
carefully about who they are online and offline, about who they want to become. What
would your answers be?
Abelwahab Fassi-Fihri (Jul 24 2000 1:04PM)
I believe that this technology should not be used before highschool or be use at the
earliest in middle school.
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 1:04PM)
Hey, Janet, I think I may know who your theif is!
Amber Thurnau (Jul 24 2000 1:04PM)
Janet, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. There are bad points about all good
things.
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 1:04PM)
i know! this computers is hella weird. i am not using the one i use always!
Janet Reese (Jul 24 2000 1:04PM)
Karen, tell!
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 1:05PM)
Janet, the same thing happened in my realm...did they steal anything?
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 1:05PM)
Janet, or did they just set up traps??
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 1:05PM)
Eric, you know that definition of "virtual" you put at the table? I like 4a--the one that
talks about virtual as essential.
Janet Reese (Jul 24 2000 1:05PM)
Amber, I'm not. But I need to make sure I know enough about the programs to protect
my students against such activities. And I don't . . .yet.
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 1:06PM)
In that sense, the "Virtual" you is none other than the "essential" you. SO there's
really no difference!
Janet Reese (Jul 24 2000 1:06PM)
Karen, actually both
Abelwahab Fassi-Fihri (Jul 24 2000 1:06PM)
I believe that this technology should not be used before highschool or be use at the
earliest in middle school.
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 1:06PM)
nancy, really I'm much nice outside the virtual world
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 1:07PM)
Janet, if it was who I think it was (because this group did this to me) check with Ursula.
She has a group of students that are 6th-9th grade and they stole a bunch of my stuff,
set up locks on stuff they placed...etc.
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 1:07PM)
Michael, but here we get teh "essential" you?
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 1:07PM)
Nancy: Mmmm...yes...I like that one too. Really, the evolution of the word "virtual" to
mean "not real" is quite new; virtual began by signifying the essential virtues of
something. So, the virtual you would encompass your essential virtues...a nice way to
look at it, if true.
Janet Reese (Jul 24 2000 1:07PM)
Karen, thanks
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 1:07PM)
i'm not sure about that
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 1:08PM)
Janet, you are welcome! I know how frustrating it can be. They are always on in the
mornings!
Stephen Batchelor (Jul 24 2000 1:08PM)
that is michael's super ego we see
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:08PM)
I think the "virtual me" may depend on the virtual environment I'm in.
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 1:09PM)
You'll never know the real me! NEVER! HA HA HA!
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:09PM)
I think even the difference of Login Names (speakeasy) vs. Character names (moo)
makes a difference in the way I interact.
Janet Reese (Jul 24 2000 1:09PM)
Is the you who you think you are the real you? Or is it just another aspect of who you
are? (oops, am I in a pysch class or what?)
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 1:09PM)
peter why?
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 1:09PM)
in what way?
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 1:10PM)
And Peter can't be mean to people by whispering, and pretend on the outside how nice
he is. Closet fan
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 1:10PM)
Peter: I agree...different names and spaces allow for differnt kinds of identity in many
cases, for a lot of people...that's one of the attractions...
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 1:10PM)
Face it, the net breeds schizophrenia
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:10PM)
dina: I think different environments give different references to reality. Seeing my real
name up on the sidebar there gives me a different attitude than seeing "peterm" in the
moo.
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 1:10PM)
here you go again karen
Abelwahab Fassi-Fihri (Jul 24 2000 1:10PM)
the moo is much better it's in real-time, while the speakeasy is delayed.
Amber Thurnau (Jul 24 2000 1:11PM)
Something about having my full name here makes me feel like I've got to be more
formal than I do when I'm just AmberT.
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 1:11PM)
yeah, we did not gooff as much did you all notice?
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:11PM)
Karen's got me there!
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 1:11PM)
I think I get a little more defensive when people are calling me by my real name than
Dingo, Hippy or other things.
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 1:11PM)
i'm a much different person without the whisper option
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:12PM)
hippy
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 1:12PM)
dingo
Abelwahab Fassi-Fihri (Jul 24 2000 1:12PM)
the moo is much better it's in real-time, while the speakeasy is delayed.
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 1:12PM)
peterm
Eric Miraglia (Jul 24 2000 1:12PM)
Well, guys, it's been fun hanging out with you today. I'm going to turn things over to
Nancy and Amy to wrap up. Thanks for sharing your class with me today...I hope you all
enjoy the rest of your summer in Pullman, Illinois, or where ever you are!
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 1:12PM)
Ahhh...I feel like Im home again
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 1:12PM)
P cubed!!! :)
Janet Reese (Jul 24 2000 1:12PM)
Thank you
Mike Mazenko (Jul 24 2000 1:12PM)
thanks, eric
Mellissa Wiegers (Jul 24 2000 1:13PM)
Thanks!
Kelly Schmickle (Jul 24 2000 1:13PM)
Thanks Eric!
Amber Thurnau (Jul 24 2000 1:13PM)
Thanks Eric.
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 1:13PM)
Good one Dove
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 1:13PM)
Thank you, Eric!! Really appreciate your visit.
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:13PM)
Thanks Eric!
Kathryn Nanneman (Jul 24 2000 1:13PM)
Thanks Eric,
Don Bechtoldt (Jul 24 2000 1:13PM)
gracias, Eric
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 1:13PM)
Pullman students do have to take off now ... see you guys in the lab tomorrow.
Dina Ibarra (Jul 24 2000 1:14PM)
OH! i gots to go, late for class! YOU ALL have a GRRRRRRREat day!! bye dina aka
DOVE
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:14PM)
Eric, can you stick around a sec and talk to me?
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 1:14PM)
ba bye
Nancy Ruff (Jul 24 2000 1:14PM)
Okay, Pullman! We'll see you in class for presentations Wed.
Karen Holden (Jul 24 2000 1:14PM)
He's gone Peter!! Nobody loves you
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:14PM)
eric: maybe in a different chatroom? so as not to disturb the illioians?
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:15PM)
doh!
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 1:15PM)
Peter, he left!
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 1:15PM)
Forgot, I guess.
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:15PM)
amy, do you have Eric's address?
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:15PM)
email?
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 1:15PM)
Yes, I do -- I'll email it to you.
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:16PM)
Do you have time to meet with me in MOO and talk about my Concierge-itude?
Amy Beasley (Jul 24 2000 1:16PM)
Feel free to use this table -- or another in this studio -- to chat with him if you like.
Peter Mullenix (Jul 24 2000 1:16PM)
good idea